Comments on: Too Pretty for the Workplace? http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/ Dr. Phil- Start A Change Reaction Sun, 19 May 2013 02:33:16 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: C.F. http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-3/#comment-22694 C.F. Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:42:00 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22694 I have had similar instances throughout my career. However, I never disregarded the dress code. When I started out in the Corporate environment, we were not supposed to show "toe cleavage" in our shoes, nor could we wear open toed shoes. Men could not wear tassels on their shoes. Women were required to wear professional attire; but if it became distracting and the subordinate was approached, then they should have heeded the first warning. I even had a woman manager told me it would look inappropriate for me to have a business luncheon with a man that was a Vice President. When I told him what she said, he said not to worry and we would take a 3 hour lunch to talk - he was my mentor. The whole business is outdated to a certain extent. I do believe in a professional office, even so much as dictating organizing the cubicles and offices to the 5 S system. I agree with some of the other replies; I turn my sexual feelings off when I enter the door - however, some men do not. If you feel you are a victim of discrimination start a journal and document from the first statement, however innocent you think it is - be specific with dates, times, situation and personnel involved. However, the problem with suing the company is being black listed. Moreover, if they decide to litigate, they have the money to wear you down. When I worked for General Motors, we had frequent visits by our Corporate Legal Department as we wrote reports, which could be leaked to the press - so we had to have a firm understanding of our limitations. General Motors fights all of their lawsuits, however minor. They do not settle out of court. This makes most people find employment elsewhere and not take these chances. Additionally, when you say that you are too pretty to work, most stay at home women will think you are vain, and the jealous secretaries will spread rumors if they are on the "frumpy side", as they form crushes on their managers. I have had similar instances throughout my career. However, I never disregarded the dress code. When I started out in the Corporate environment, we were not supposed to show “toe cleavage” in our shoes, nor could we wear open toed shoes. Men could not wear tassels on their shoes. Women were required to wear professional attire; but if it became distracting and the subordinate was approached, then they should have heeded the first warning. I even had a woman manager told me it would look inappropriate for me to have a business luncheon with a man that was a Vice President. When I told him what she said, he said not to worry and we would take a 3 hour lunch to talk – he was my mentor.

The whole business is outdated to a certain extent. I do believe in a professional office, even so much as dictating organizing the cubicles and offices to the 5 S system. I agree with some of the other replies; I turn my sexual feelings off when I enter the door – however, some men do not. If you feel you are a victim of discrimination start a journal and document from the first statement, however innocent you think it is – be specific with dates, times, situation and personnel involved.

However, the problem with suing the company is being black listed. Moreover, if they decide to litigate, they have the money to wear you down. When I worked for General Motors, we had frequent visits by our Corporate Legal Department as we wrote reports, which could be leaked to the press – so we had to have a firm understanding of our limitations. General Motors fights all of their lawsuits, however minor. They do not settle out of court. This makes most people find employment elsewhere and not take these chances.

Additionally, when you say that you are too pretty to work, most stay at home women will think you are vain, and the jealous secretaries will spread rumors if they are on the “frumpy side”, as they form crushes on their managers.

]]> By: K.C. http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22594 K.C. Tue, 07 Jun 2011 04:26:40 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22594 Happened two time in two years for my career. Men need to understand that when you enter the office your mojo turns off. We deserve the right to dress appropriately and if a woman decides to add some accessories or maintain a sense of individual style right to dress it just show how unprofessional men really are. It's 2011 not biblical time where dress is controlled by status. Time for men to accept and control their thoughts and get to work! Happened two time in two years for my career. Men need to understand that when you enter the office your mojo turns off. We deserve the right to dress appropriately and if a woman decides to add some accessories or maintain a sense of individual style right to dress it just show how unprofessional men really are. It’s 2011 not biblical time where dress is controlled by status. Time for men to accept and control their thoughts and get to work!

]]> By: Ldianejones http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22537 Ldianejones Sat, 04 Jun 2011 12:36:51 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22537 I really hope this young beautiful woman reads this blog. I hope she understand that there are millions of woman that are soooo proud of her for standing up, for doing what we have to do as single moms and that is to work as hard as we can. Now I have to say since I became a single mom myself well my wardrobe really lacks because I just don't have the time or money anymore for the right clothes, make up, and shoes and honestly just lazy in that area these days. My Wardrobe consists of about every basic pair of dress pants and shirts that don't require too much ironing in the morning. LOL! I absolutely look up to this woman. In all of the clothing they showed her in I didn't think one outfit could even come close to being called "not appropiate". I think Citibank had people who obviously were uncomfortable with her absolute beauty, smarts, knowlegde, and successfulness. Unfortunately that can bring in alot of jealousy and cause people to basically try to "bully" her. Because the way I see it that is just what it is. I really hope I have her strength should I ever be put in that position. I have to say Who in the world in a business world says you can't wear a pencil skirt. It comes almost past the knees. So she fills out her clothing in a nice way and she is a absolutely beautiful woman and mother. How can that be called inappropiate? She shouldn't be harrassed because she is beautiful and doesn't wear clothes sizes too big to cover her body. THIS IS AMERICA why should she? I am praying that you win this fight. To stand up like that takes so much courage and just shows that you have amazing strength as a woman. Please Dr Phil keep us updated on what happens with this. We will all be in her corner and cheering her on. Please don't change who are. You are a woman most of look up! and make us want to strive to have the same success you have had. So your appearance on the show did SO MUCH for all of us single moms out there. I am sorry though that you even have to deal with this. It's just not fair to you. IN NO WAY is it appropiate for you to be harrassed like that for taking care in how you dress! Keep your head up. There is alot of women out that that are so cheering you on and will be praying that everything works in your favor. It it no small feat going up against a bank that powerful but good for you for showing them you are not some little woman they can harrass and then just flick you away like you were nothing. Obviously from your work history or what we know of it you are one hard worker. I know this must be hard on you. As single moms we really don't and shouldn't have to deal with crap like this when we have so many other responsibilities and I know from my own expierience how hard it is to raise a child on your own. I AM SO PROUD OF YOU! NOT ONE OUTFIT shown on the show showed anything but that you are a beautiful woman who takes care in how she dresses and presents herself. I know that I am blessed enough in my workplace to work with mostly woman and I can tell you in our handbook of clothing that is acceptable. PENCIL SKIRTS are on the accpetable list and I have to look at your troubles and be thankful that was I to walk in like that and on the rare occasions I do there isn't a word said that is not a compliment. My boss, My coworkers, all of them will greet you and tell you Wow you look great today and jokingly say now you don't have another interview somewhere and are leaving us are you. Dr Phil what can do to help support this woman? She should be celebrated in this world where we so often don't take good care of ourselves. She obvioulsy takes great care in her body and how she presents herself and I think that IS A GREAT THING! If a man is uncomfortable With the way she is dressed considering she is completely covered up what does that say about that man. MAybe that he can't keep himself under control? Stay stong and we are on your side! Hope you KICK BUTT! I really hope this young beautiful woman reads this blog. I hope she understand that there are millions of woman that are soooo proud of her for standing up, for doing what we have to do as single moms and that is to work as hard as we can. Now I have to say since I became a single mom myself well my wardrobe really lacks because I just don’t have the time or money anymore for the right clothes, make up, and shoes and honestly just lazy in that area these days. My Wardrobe consists of about every basic pair of dress pants and shirts that don’t require too much ironing in the morning. LOL! I absolutely look up to this woman. In all of the clothing they showed her in I didn’t think one outfit could even come close to being called “not appropiate”. I think Citibank had people who obviously were uncomfortable with her absolute beauty, smarts, knowlegde, and successfulness. Unfortunately that can bring in alot of jealousy and cause people to basically try to “bully” her. Because the way I see it that is just what it is. I really hope I have her strength should I ever be put in that position. I have to say Who in the world in a business world says you can’t wear a pencil skirt. It comes almost past the knees. So she fills out her clothing in a nice way and she is a absolutely beautiful woman and mother. How can that be called inappropiate? She shouldn’t be harrassed because she is beautiful and doesn’t wear clothes sizes too big to cover her body. THIS IS AMERICA why should she? I am praying that you win this fight. To stand up like that takes so much courage and just shows that you have amazing strength as a woman. Please Dr Phil keep us updated on what happens with this. We will all be in her corner and cheering her on. Please don’t change who are. You are a woman most of look up! and make us want to strive to have the same success you have had. So your appearance on the show did SO MUCH for all of us single moms out there. I am sorry though that you even have to deal with this. It’s just not fair to you. IN NO WAY is it appropiate for you to be harrassed like that for taking care in how you dress! Keep your head up. There is alot of women out that that are so cheering you on and will be praying that everything works in your favor. It it no small feat going up against a bank that powerful but good for you for showing them you are not some little woman they can harrass and then just flick you away like you were nothing. Obviously from your work history or what we know of it you are one hard worker. I know this must be hard on you. As single moms we really don’t and shouldn’t have to deal with crap like this when we have so many other responsibilities and I know from my own expierience how hard it is to raise a child on your own. I AM SO PROUD OF YOU! NOT ONE OUTFIT shown on the show showed anything but that you are a beautiful woman who takes care in how she dresses and presents herself. I know that I am blessed enough in my workplace to work with mostly woman and I can tell you in our handbook of clothing that is acceptable. PENCIL SKIRTS are on the accpetable list and I have to look at your troubles and be thankful that was I to walk in like that and on the rare occasions I do there isn’t a word said that is not a compliment. My boss, My coworkers, all of them will greet you and tell you Wow you look great today and jokingly say now you don’t have another interview somewhere and are leaving us are you. Dr Phil what can do to help support this woman? She should be celebrated in this world where we so often don’t take good care of ourselves. She obvioulsy takes great care in her body and how she presents herself and I think that IS A GREAT THING! If a man is uncomfortable With the way she is dressed considering she is completely covered up what does that say about that man. MAybe that he can’t keep himself under control? Stay stong and we are on your side! Hope you KICK BUTT!

]]> By: Kristen http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22524 Kristen Sat, 04 Jun 2011 06:05:23 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22524 Ever hear the expression "you'd look good in a gunny sack?" Any clothing or body type can be provocative in the eye of the beholder. I once walked into work dressed in a high neckline, long hemline, no makeup and moon boots (it was winter and I hadn't changed shoes). I was greeted by a male co-worker who later sent me an email complimenting my appearance. He wasn't joking or talking about the dress' fabric. I guess slim, clean and 27 was enough to distract him. I'm not bitter about it, just baffled. Regardless of looks, it's wrong to penalize others for your lack of self-control. Instead of forcing the opposite sex to wear burkas, men should be responsible for controlling their own libidos. Most men do! Ever hear the expression “you’d look good in a gunny sack?” Any clothing or body type can be provocative in the eye of the beholder. I once walked into work dressed in a high neckline, long hemline, no makeup and moon boots (it was winter and I hadn’t changed shoes). I was greeted by a male co-worker who later sent me an email complimenting my appearance. He wasn’t joking or talking about the dress’ fabric. I guess slim, clean and 27 was enough to distract him. I’m not bitter about it, just baffled.

Regardless of looks, it’s wrong to penalize others for your lack of self-control. Instead of forcing the opposite sex to wear burkas, men should be responsible for controlling their own libidos. Most men do!

]]> By: Friday, June 3: Ask Dr. Phil | Dating http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22523 Friday, June 3: Ask Dr. Phil | Dating Sat, 04 Jun 2011 05:55:22 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22523 [...] responsibility to tone down her looks on the job? Debrahlee made headlines when she claimed she was fired for being too pretty. She says she was told that with her figure, her pencil skirts, turtlenecks and three-inch heels [...] [...] responsibility to tone down her looks on the job? Debrahlee made headlines when she claimed she was fired for being too pretty. She says she was told that with her figure, her pencil skirts, turtlenecks and three-inch heels [...]

]]> By: Jeanne E Schneider http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22518 Jeanne E Schneider Sat, 04 Jun 2011 00:44:27 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22518 I'll try to make this short - I lived in Brooklyn (NY) and I was about 19 or 20 when I landed a job at Manufacturers Hanover Trust (hope they're out of business now).... I am in my 60's now, but I never forgot that job! My last name was "Quinn", then, but I was raised Jewish.... I, also, did GREAT at the job and they 'loved me' - - - - TIL I had to take off for a High Holy Day - then afterwards things went downhill, I was no longer 'good enough' and the harrassment and cruelity to a young girl was horrible.... I NEVER just 'left a job', but I did that one and THEN they refused to give me my money in the bank til I signed some forms (I guess to say I wasn't being discriminated against, I guess..... I refused to sign it and they refused to give me my money - I finally had to give in)..... It may NOT be her dress code that they didn't like, but 'who' she is (Nationality)..... I'm sorry, but I DO hope this helps her case, and 'maybe' they can find 'others' who were in the same boat at that 'same' Bank!!! Good Luck and God Bless..... Jeanne I’ll try to make this short – I lived in Brooklyn (NY) and I was about 19 or 20 when I landed a job at Manufacturers Hanover Trust (hope they’re out of business now)…. I am in my 60’s now, but I never forgot that job!

My last name was “Quinn”, then, but I was raised Jewish…. I, also, did GREAT at the job and they ‘loved me’ – - – - TIL I had to take off for a High Holy Day – then afterwards things went downhill, I was no longer ‘good enough’ and the harrassment and cruelity to a young girl was horrible…. I NEVER just ‘left a job’, but I did that one and THEN they refused to give me my money in the bank til I signed some forms (I guess to say I wasn’t being discriminated against, I guess….. I refused to sign it and they refused to give me my money – I finally had to give in)….. It may NOT be her dress code that they didn’t like, but ‘who’ she is (Nationality)….. I’m sorry, but I DO hope this helps her case, and ‘maybe’ they can find ‘others’ who were in the same boat at that ’same’ Bank!!! Good Luck and God Bless….. Jeanne

]]> By: Michelle http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22514 Michelle Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:38:42 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22514 The remarks that citibank said in their comment would have ended the case right then if I were a judge bc they said something about her attention getting activities, which to me they were saying her clothing attire was attention getting, CASE CLOSED in my eyes, Citibank is WRONG! The remarks that citibank said in their comment would have ended the case right then if I were a judge bc they said something about her attention getting activities, which to me they were saying her clothing attire was attention getting, CASE CLOSED in my eyes, Citibank is WRONG!

]]> By: kate http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22506 kate Fri, 03 Jun 2011 21:31:09 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22506 I think just from seeing the show that this girl definately is seeking attention - first of all she's wearing a tight red dress on a show where she wants to dispute the fact that she was NOT trying to get attention. Secondly, I have seen girls do that; dress in a provocative matter, behave certain ways or drop some innuendoes here and there and then Complain about the wrong type of attention they are getting. I don't want to sound conceited but I am an attractive girl and I could make the choice to dress or act that way to get attention in the workplace but I don't because that is not the image I am trying to project... I think it's a craving for attention that is fuel by very deep insecurities - I have seen it many times and quite frankly I find it pathetic. I think just from seeing the show that this girl definately is seeking attention – first of all she’s wearing a tight red dress on a show where she wants to dispute the fact that she was NOT trying to get attention. Secondly, I have seen girls do that; dress in a provocative matter, behave certain ways or drop some innuendoes here and there and then Complain about the wrong type of attention they are getting. I don’t want to sound conceited but I am an attractive girl and I could make the choice to dress or act that way to get attention in the workplace but I don’t because that is not the image I am trying to project… I think it’s a craving for attention that is fuel by very deep insecurities – I have seen it many times and quite frankly I find it pathetic.

]]> By: Lauren http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22503 Lauren Fri, 03 Jun 2011 21:20:09 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22503 I am a single mother who works out everyday and have run my own computer service business for over 13 years, but even though I have more knowledge and certifications in one finger than most everyone has in their entire bodies, I have been offended on an almost daily basis by men because of my appearance. One even said me once "Gee, for a big t*tted woman, you don't dress like a slut." So you are damned if you do and damned if your don't. BTW, if you are interested, my response was "High praise indeed" as I looked down my nose at him. The men who are not idiots are just heathen. I am a single mother who works out everyday and have run my own computer service business for over 13 years, but even though I have more knowledge and certifications in one finger than most everyone has in their entire bodies, I have been offended on an almost daily basis by men because of my appearance. One even said me once “Gee, for a big t*tted woman, you don’t dress like a slut.” So you are damned if you do and damned if your don’t. BTW, if you are interested, my response was “High praise indeed” as I looked down my nose at him. The men who are not idiots are just heathen.

]]> By: Judy S http://blog.drphil.com/2010/06/08/too-pretty-for-the-workplace/comment-page-2/#comment-22500 Judy S Fri, 03 Jun 2011 21:05:05 +0000 http://blog.drphil.com/?p=2610#comment-22500 The work place is no place for cleavage. Sometimes it is not what a woman wares, but how she wares the close! How a woman walks, stands, poses , sits, can be suggestive. She may not even be aware of how she is doing these things. What she needs is someone to make her aware of these things, in an honest and kind way. This will help her get along better with the women and they may not be as jealous and resentful. Although, I don't believe she should not have been fired from her job, if she is doing her work well. And men should have some self-control. The work place is no place for cleavage. Sometimes it is not what a woman wares, but how she wares the close! How a woman walks, stands, poses , sits, can be suggestive. She may not even be aware of how she is doing these things. What she needs is someone to make her aware of these things, in an honest and kind way. This will help her get along better with the women and they may not be as jealous and resentful. Although, I don’t believe she should not have been fired from her job, if she is doing her work well. And men should have some self-control.

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